Trails of Triumph Celebrating Female Fortitude in Ultra-Running with Meghan Gould of She Runs Ultras

We have an exception guest today, but before we dive into our conversation with ultrarunning coach and podcast host, Meghan Gould, I want to invite you to join in on the March Mileage and Mindset Challenge. Learn more here. 

Get sorted and tackle your monthly mileage together with your team on the way to victory of the Tri-Wizard Tournament of miles, mindset, and magic. 

Then join me in welcoming Meghan, a former Division II softball player turned ultra-marathoner. We share our journeys of overcoming physical adversities and the incredible ways these experiences have sculpted us into the resilient athletes we are today. Learn more about Meghan's transition from competitive softball to long-distance running, which serves as a testament to the strength and empowerment found within the ultra-endurance community.

We tackle the subjects that resonate deeply with women venturing into the world of ultra-running. Safety, the shift from roads to trails, and pushing beyond marathon distances are just a few of the hurdles we discuss, highlighting the evolution of the ultra community into an increasingly welcoming space for female runners. Our discussion aims to inspire and guide more women to lace up their trail shoes and join the ranks, embracing the invigorating challenge and camaraderie that come with the sport. Let's break down barriers and celebrate the diverse joys trail running has to offer, proving that anyone can find their pace and thrive in this exhilarating scene.

As we wrap up this episode, the focus turns to the tactical side of ultra-marathon success. From the "daily shake down" for injury prevention to setting ambitious goals that take us beyond our comfort zones, the conversation is packed with actionable advice for those ready to step up to the starting line of their first ultra. Join our supportive She Runs Ultras community, where we share triumphs, challenges, and the undeniable thrill of running. Your journey is unique, and we're here to cheer you on every step of the way, so come along for the ride and let's make those magical miles count.

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:01

Welcome back to Time for brunch. I'm Coach Christine and I am delighted to have you here with me, friend, I have an exceptional guest that I cannot wait to introduce you to. I have some incredibly exciting updates and announcements, but before I get into any of that, I want to take a quick moment and just encourage you. I know things are tough. I know that motivation wanes. I know that sometimes we get kind of stuck in our own thinking of having too much to do and not enough time to do it. Or, let's be honest, there's other times where we just don't want to, and that's okay. I'm human. I have those times too. I probably have those times more than you do, to be honest.

Speaker 1: 0:40

However, it's still really important to show up as the best version of ourselves. And what does that mean? Well, that means someone who says today I know that I'm worth it. Today, I know that I have a responsibility to myself and my loved ones to take care of myself, and that's what's so exciting. A few years ago, I ran across a quote that said I take impeccable care of myself. That quote has become my affirmation. That affirmation is on my mirror. Every single morning I check in with that affirmation. Every single night. I check in with that affirmation, and why? It's because in the busyness of day to day life, we are really good at crossing things off our checklist getting that dopamine hit of it, digging off the boxes.

Speaker 1: 1:36

Very rarely do we put ourselves on that to-do list, and that's understandable. It happens. But it's also vital, and I know I know you feel like I don't want you to preach to me. I'm not preaching my friend. I'm asking you to consider how important it is to be here for you and to take impeccable care of yourself. Okay, with that said, I'm going to step down from my soapbox. I'm going to dash in a little bit of sparkle that you know and love.

Speaker 1: 2:10

We are excited to officially kick off the magical miles challenge for the month of March. It's kicking off on March 1st and, if you have not yet received your official invitation to join us, it will be departing platform nine and three quarters shortly, so we want you to join in so that you can take part of our official sorting hat ceremony. You'll get sorted into your house. So, one of four teams. You will work collaboratively with your team for wherever you're at to tackle your miles. It's going to be a whole lot of fun. We've done these mileage challenges before. We love the team component. There's a lot of that extra support, that extra accountability, especially in this time of year where we're still not quite into spring and we start to just kind of get into a little bit of the winter blues or not quite yet springtime flaws. And this challenge is exactly what you need to add a little dash of magic, some potion making and, of course, wonder as you get moving and grooving towards your team's goal collectively. Friends will have weekly prizes. We're going to have pop ups. Of course, we're going to have some focus on other components like mobility, strength and a lot of silliness and fun to get you engaged. Not to mention the weekly workouts are incredible. They are all designed so that you get it delivered to you and you can partake in a treadmill or elliptical or however you decide to move, but they are incredible workouts. They were a lot of fun and I think Coach Shelby probably punded throughout them all. She has more knowledge of Potter than I ever would have known and it was a teensy bit scary. So use that link in episode notes. Come join us and get sorted as we are officially ready to tackle the month of March, getting in some extra miles and also maybe focusing our attention and having more of a positive mindset for cross training and other ways to move our bodies.

Speaker 1: 4:26

Now, friends, let's talk about the next update, because it is important that you know that community around here is what we are built on. I cannot stress that enough. The word community sounds very buzzwordy and you may even roll your eyes when you hear it, but I want to tell you there's nothing fake about how important that is to me. It's very, very foundational that our little corner of the world stay positive, inspirational, fun. I want you to feel seen, heard, supported and also be able to feel included and welcomed in sharing your ups and downs of your journey and have extra fun. So that's where our private Facebook community page comes into play. And as we continue to grow and I want to welcome every new member it's also important that we continue to be that center hub of fun and support and sparkles. Let's not forget the sparkles. So I want to welcome officially our first member of our moderator team here in two, referred to as the mod squad. So, kimba, thank you so much for joining us as our first team member of the mod squad. Kimba is going to help spread sparkles and love and support, and let me tell you this girl she definitely has the sparkliest wardrobe I have ever seen, so she could probably teach us a thing or two about how to add some extra sequence to our running gear. If you're interested in joining the Facebook community page, you should be because, again I'm telling you, we have a lot of fun over there. You can also use that Lincoln episode notes or reach out info at timeforbrunchcom. I will point you in the right direction, my friend, and I can't wait to welcome you there.

Speaker 1: 6:21

So, with that said, I am ready to introduce you to our exceptional guest. I've mentioned in a couple of the episodes this season. I've always had a bit of fascination regarding the ultra world, and this next guest is actually helping to really unveil and unravel those mysteries of the ultra marathon world. I can't wait to bring her in and share all of her wisdom with you. So, without further ado, join me in welcoming the host of she runs ultras.

Speaker 1: 6:58

Megan, a former division two softball player, turned her struggles with athletic injuries from overuse and to a mission to empower others as a running and movement coach. Her journey from battling severe sciatic pain to conquering ultras like the Tahoe 200 is nothing short of awe struck, inspiring. And this for this conversation with Megan, as she shares her wisdom on resilience, training and pushing beyond limits. Not to mention she's on a personal quest to make sure that over 10,000 women make their way to that 50 K. So, whether you're just dabbling in getting started with running or you've been looking at the ultras with a little bit of a side eye, let's welcome Megan to hear a little bit more about it.

Speaker 1: 7:39

Welcome, megan. Thank you so much for having me. Megan, as I mentioned, I want to get into your mission, I want to get into your story, but here at brunch, we always want to talk about something that I feel joins us all besides running, which is food. So if you could share a victory brunch with any three people, past or present, after completing one of your toughest ultramarathons, who would they be and why? And one more question and what brunch dish would you want on the menu to share with these three folks? Oh, man.

Speaker 2: 8:07

Ok, past or present, huh. Well, I think right now, two people that I would really like to have. Two of those three people would be Courtney DeWalter, candice Burt and, oh man, who would be the third person? Hmm, I might have to circle back on that, but those two ladies are at the top of my list because they have been so influential in the world of ultras. And as far as my dish goes, man, so I'm plant based, so my dish would probably be. I actually just made this recipe the other day. I just found it online. It's like a breakfast bake with like hash browns and veggies and like a tofu mixture that substitutes as eggs and it's all layered together. It is excellent. I made the recipe as is, but I've already thought of some adjustments that I would make to it. But anything that combines veggies and hash browns and you know, it's just some good like solid filling food that's my go to.

Speaker 1: 9:06

And potatoes. I mean, how can we go wrong with anything that has potatoes as a base? I'm going to go ahead and just suggest maybe you might want to massage their. This is your third person after that. It is a victory brunch after all, after winning your top ultra marathons. Well before we get too far into it, I want to learn more about your story, how you got in your own personal quest to the ultra territory. But just in case folks are rolling through here and maybe not a hundred percent sure, what does ultra mean besides a whole lot of miles? Can you break down what exactly that does mean?

Speaker 2: 9:34

Yeah, and ultra is basically anything longer than 26.2. So the next typical distance beyond a marathon that qualifies, quote unquote, as an ultra is a 50 K, that's roughly 31 and a half or 32 miles. And then the distances above that sort of go 50 K, 50 miles, 100 K, which is roughly 62 miles, 100 miles, and then we've even gotten to dip into the 200 territory, so 200, 240,. Candisbert, the one of the women that I mentioned earlier, has just released a 300 miler. She puts on a lot of these longer distance, longer format races. So it's basically anything more than 26.2.

Speaker 2: 10:18

There are some road ultras, but they are predominantly trail and they can be all sorts of different formats. They could be looped courses, they could be out and back, they could be point to point races where you start in one place and finish in a completely other. So there are some interesting formats when it comes to ultras that are could be slightly different than road running, even though obviously there's like track events and you know point to point road races. But we have a lot of elevation in ultras typically. So that's another differentiating factor.

Speaker 1: 10:52

OK, I definitely want to talk about that as well, because I do think that there is a big transition from folks being especially women where I feel like there's always a bit more of a safety concern of women dabbling into trail running and that feels like it's kind of a gateway into the ultra territory. But before we get too far down that trail pathway, let's talk a little bit about what brought you to the ultra world, because you, as I mentioned in your intro, you have been active in athletic your entire life and that you didn't have a bit of overuse issues that kind of came up.

Speaker 2: 11:24

Yeah, my overuse issues really started when I was playing softball and I didn't know it at the time. I just thought like, oh, this is literally a pain in my butt. I had sciatic nerve issues. So anybody who's had hip or sciatic nerve stuff understands the literal pain in your butt. And I mean that was back in like that I'm going to date myself, but like that was back in the early 2000s and I was getting, I was going to the athletic trainer for shoulder stuff because I was playing a lot of softball, throwing and hitting, and so I had some overuse stuff going on with my shoulder. But then I kept mentioning this other thing and they were they just sort of shrugged. They were like, ah, it'll go away, but it didn't. And then after I graduated, the pain did actually subside for a while because I stopped playing.

Speaker 2: 12:12

But then when I took up running just as a way to stay active and you know vent, my, you know frustrations of the real world it came back and it culminated with an episode where I had gone for a run, came back to my apartment, laid down to do some stretching on the floor and the pain was so bad that I literally couldn't get off the floor. I talk about it in my podcast. I think it's like episode one where I tell the story in detail, but basically the short version is I had to call some of my friends and it ultimately ended up with my friend calling her chiropractor a guy that I had never met before to come to my apartment to literally get me up off the floor because the pain was just so excruciating I couldn't do it myself. So you know, that was the tipping point where I decided, ok, I have to do something about this because I'm too young I was in my mid 20s. I'm too young to have quote, unquote back pain or any sort of pain really.

Speaker 1: 13:10

And that just sort of sent me on this long trajectory of figuring it out, which basically landed me here today talking to you, fascinating how so many of us, I feel like, have our own personal stories, and it usually is those big obstacles and challenges that kind of start to help us see another pathway for our living our lives, but also getting others focused on living what I call living your best life kind of a thing. So when did that start to turn for you? Because obviously, as you already said, you delved deeper into how you could rebuild stronger and recover better and try to minimize the injuries. How did that turn into? I'm going to make sure that other individuals have these same tools at their disposal.

Speaker 2: 13:54

Well, it started with, you know, going to different doctors to try to get some sort of formal diagnosis, and I got none. But what I did get was a lot of recommendations for heavy drugs, heavy NSAID drugs and invasive muscle testing and all sorts of things right up to like surgery. And I just kept thinking to myself like there has to be a step before all of this heavy duty stuff. And so I declined all of those options and started to just do a little bit of research on my own, which led to doing some yoga, which led to getting certified as a personal trainer, which led to, you know, a whole bunch of certifications and just more knowledge and stuff. And it got to the point where I started running more and I was still having pain. But I was going through this process of testing. I mean, basically everything that I talked to my audience about and work with my clients and my coaching groups I've self tested. So all of this has been sort of battlefield tested on myself first, so that I know that it works in some way, shape or form, that I'm not just parroting something that I've heard Like. This is all stuff that I have done and tested myself. So my brother actually challenged me to run this half marathon as I was sort of battling through this pain and he beat me which still irks me to this day but I got the bug to run and so at the end of that race, that half marathon, I was tired and I don't think I could have turned around and run another 13 miles, but that sort of set me on the trajectory to train for a marathon and I did a couple of those and I was still battling through pain. And then on one particular day I came I was living in Boston at the time. I came back to my apartment and I had a copy of Runners World and there was an article about trail running and ultras in it and I had never been told that this was a thing before. I had hiked a lot as a kid but, like, trail running wasn't something that was even on my radar, nor was going any farther than a marathon, and I had done at least one or two marathons at this point and I read the article and I was just like I'm going to do this and I just like seemed so much more interesting to me to be on the trails and one of the most appealing aspects was that I could walk and run sort of at my leisure. Like the pace that was expected wasn't as breakneck as you typically find in the road running community and it just seemed like there was a whole different vibe that I might like more. That was more suited to me as a runner. That was still sort of battling through pain and really my body really couldn't handle the pounding on the pavement.

Speaker 2: 16:46

So fast forward to doing my first 50 K and when I crossed the finish line I was like that was amazing, like how do I, how do I do more of that? And it was that experience of doing this thing that I had previously told myself like oh, there's no way in hell I'm going any farther than 26.2. Who would be crazy enough to want to do that? It was, you know, the process of training for that. I coached myself through that, which was challenging because back then I didn't know any coaches that were, I mean, like I searched for an ultra coach. Nobody was doing it.

Speaker 2: 17:19

So again I had to like field test all of this stuff on myself. And so after that I was like you know what? There weren't a lot of women at that race and I was like why, why are there not more women doing these trail races? Like super fun, the community is amazing, like the scenery is amazing and what an amazing thing to be able to sort of check this off your bucket list to say like, oh, I've run an ultra, like I've run further than many people would ever dream of running. So that was that's sort of how I moved from one to the next to the next to get to this point of being like OK, now we're on a mission to try to get as many women as possible into trail running and ultra specifically.

Speaker 1: 17:57

So what are some of the conversations or maybe limiting beliefs or hesitations that you hear specifically from women when they hear about tackling the ultra territory?

Speaker 2: 18:09

Oh man, so many One is they don't know how to train for it. That's sort of like the overarching and not not knowing how to go from road to trail, sort of alluding back to your question about you know women and safety issues and running on trails. So don't know how to train for it, don't know how to transition from road to trail. Concerned about safety on trails, particularly running by yourself in the middle of nowhere. Air quotes right like out in the middle of nowhere, not getting injured, not knowing the rules of the game, so to speak, about ultras, like how are road races different from ultras? Like what's acceptable, what's not? Like you know, there's like a set of like social rules right for road running and trail running. How do they differ?

Speaker 2: 18:57

I'm trying to think of if there's any other, but there are a lot of just limiting beliefs around. I could never go farther than 26.2. And in reality it's not really that much farther, but we make it out to be, oh, it's a whole extra. You know, five miles. Like how am I going to be able to do that? But if you can do the last six of your road marathon, then you can for sure do the last five to get you from 26 to 31, 32.

Speaker 1: 19:24

I joke a lot with athletes regarding that specific distance because I usually tell them that if they're doing a big city race anyway, at the 26.2, the miles that they put on before and after to get back to their transportation they pretty much are already at that 50 K, or at least that was definitely the case for me when I did New York City. I think it still holds the most amount of miles that I've had on my feet just because it was such a very long day. So I also think that when I'm hearing you talk about this because obviously we both feel very passionate about getting women more into the sport and I think it's come a huge way and I'm sure for you you've seen it, you've been part of the movement making, you've been spearheading it when do you see that the community has changed to be more welcoming for women in ultra running?

Speaker 2: 20:05

I just think that the word is getting out. You know it's not necessarily a secret anymore that ultras exist and that they're a really great way to train or a good thing to actually train for. And just slowly, over time, I'm just starting to see more women at races, more women online. Like talking about racing trail specifically, even if it starts out at the 5 K, 10 K half distance, which I always try to recommend to people, like any road runners that are listening that want to get into trail races. Like don't automatically sign up for a trail marathon. Like trail running and road running are two completely different sports and I think that's one of the hurdles, limiting beliefs that we sort of talked about before. It's not a one to one type of a thing. It's you can take those road skills that you've developed, but now you have to deal with the uneven terrain and you know the ups and the downs. It's not just like avoiding potholes, it's avoiding rocks and roots and stumps and trees and leaves and like water hazards and all these other things. So it's very much a full body experience. I always think about the times where I was training for road races, where I was just on like a long straight away, whether it was a sidewalk or like an empty street where I actually had some points. Remember closing my eyes and running for you know a minute or two minutes, you know, every once in a while I'd open an eye just to make sure I wasn't veering off. But you can't do that in trail riding. You have to be 100% switched on all cylinders, go paying attention to where you're stepping, what you're doing, you know your line of sight and all that stuff. So I think that, like to circle back to your original question, like the word has gotten out and I think that more women are starting to just dip their toes in at the 5k, 10k, half trail, marathon level and then they start to see like, oh, actually I don't need to be super fast, I don't need to look a certain way, I don't need to be trying to win my age group or my category, even though if that's what you want to do, that's totally great.

Speaker 2: 22:11

The trail community is a little more laid back. We are a lot all about fun. It's more welcoming in the sense that, like if you trip at a road race and this is just my personal experience, so this is like I'm not there's no shade being thrown on any road runners here, but anytime I like tripped or stumbled in a road race, I would just get like bowled over, like people would not hesitate at all to just, yeah, they're on a mission, yeah, they're on a mission. If that same thing happens in a trail race and there are people around you, nine out of 10 people will stop. They'll scoop you up, they'll dust you off, they'll ask you if you need anything. They'll check you for like are you bleeding, do you need anything? And many of them will like continue to run with you and support you to just make sure that you're okay. It's like a completely different vibe. So I think that, like I said, the word is getting out and people are like, oh, this sounds really appealing, let me go check that out.

Speaker 1: 23:07

Yeah, I also love. I don't know the actual statistic, but I think there is something to be said about that for women going the ultra distance, that's where we start to actually kind of have a level, even playing field on our being able to maybe be at the same pace as men. So I wonder have you thrown the gauntlet down to your brother in the ultra territory?

Speaker 2: 23:26

I have not. I don't think he would take me up on it now because he knows that I just don't give up and even if I'm slow I'm still going to out distance him. But I could try and see if you would take me up on it.

Speaker 1: 23:43

I feel like, yeah, I mean he could have the half territory. You'll tackle the ultra distance and I'm sure that you'll definitely come out ahead. Let's talk about that, though you mentioned specifically. You won't give up, and that is actually right out of the gate. One of your pillars of ultra marathon training is mindset, and if you want to discuss your six pillars as well but do you feel like it's kind of like I feel like I can't really ask this question but when you think of a table, you think of these six pillars holding that table up? Is there one that you feel is actually the most foundational part of ultra training?

Speaker 2: 24:14

Well, it's a good question, but it's also really tricky because I feel like all of them are really important. But I do think that if, as an individual, if you come into this sport, there's probably going to be things that you're already good at in some way, shape or form. So the pillar that you need to work on the most, or the one that will be most pivotal for you, I think, is going to be really personal, and so I would say that that you would want to focus on the most, but just to go through them real quick, because my inclination is to say the mindset one is the most important. But the six pillars that and I just came up with these as I was taking myself, like self-coaching, through all of the distances what is walking, running, obviously, strength training, mobility, mindset and race strategy. And so when I started to break down, okay, what are the buckets of things that I feel like I needed to work on in order to put together this comprehensive training plan, those were the buckets that I created.

Speaker 2: 25:18

So one of the things that I think is really important for ultras is your ability to walk, and it sounds counterintuitive because if this is an ultra running race, we need to run, and that is the truth. But there are going to be times during that ultra where the terrain is challenging. There's an elevation change, like steep up or steep down, there's some sort of you know water hazard or a rock scramble that you have to go over under, through or whatever, and so you won't be able to maintain the same pace consistently for all 50k. And if you've never practiced running and then flipping the switch and walking and then going back to running again, that can be a real weak spot. It definitely was for me, and when I started training that component of my race, my time got better, my body felt better, I didn't feel as drained, and so that's a really important one. The running obviously very important. You got to build up time on feet, you got to build up the distance, the ability to cover the terrain, like these are skills that are very specific to the thing that you're trying to do.

Speaker 2: 26:30

Another one that I think is really challenging for women is the strength training component, because we know we need to do it and strengthen mobility sort of go hand in hand here. We know we need to do these two things, but we have a hard time integrating them into our training routine or our plan, because we just think run, run, run, like this is the thing I'm going to do. So I got to throw all my eggs into that basket and oftentimes we see strength or mobility or stretching or rest or whatever as being something that's nice to have but not necessary or mandatory. And the way I try to get people to sort of flip the switch in their head is that one begets the other, like if you don't have the muscle mass and you don't have the joint capability, you won't be able to walk or run. So it doesn't really matter, right, if you walk and run to your little heart's content, if you don't have the strength and mobility to support it, it's not going to happen anyway. So those four things, the physical aspect of training for these races is really important.

Speaker 2: 27:33

And then we start to dive into the mindset piece, which is, I think again, if I had to pick one, that would be the A plus plus most important one, because if you constantly have a negative mindset, you talk to yourself in a self-deprecating way, you are constantly thinking about what could possibly go wrong.

Speaker 2: 27:56

You're going to dig yourself into a hole that's going to be really hard to get out of.

Speaker 2: 28:00

It's going to be hard to get motivated for your run or see the light in the distance at the end of the tunnel, to be like, yes, I can totally get there. So mindset is really, really important. And then, on top of that, one of the things that I noticed with myself was I would do all of the training and then I would show up on race day and be like, well, I guess I'm just going to wing it Right. I don't know, I just like focus so hard on getting myself to the starting line that I didn't really give a whole lot of thought to how am I going to execute a race plan on this day other than just go when they fire the gun or ring the bell or do whatever? Right? So, putting all of those things together, I think it helps you to develop this really comprehensive training plan so that you can show up with a lot of confidence on race day, regardless of whether you plan on trying to race to win or finish or somewhere in between.

Speaker 1: 28:58

I love that you're mentioning all of that specifically, because I do think that this is something that's important, regardless of the distance. I do feel like what I have come to think of the ultra running community is specifically like this is where it'll magnify every aspect of what we do. So if your race day strategy is a little bit less than its best maybe you're 5k, you're not going to notice it. 10k, you may not notice it. Half, you will start to feel a little bit more. But once you start getting to that 50k distance and beyond, those weaknesses are just so easily like the spotlight will be shown on them. So it's something that definitely you have to focus on a bit more.

Speaker 1: 29:33

I'm curious if you have found and I love how you talked about that self-defeating, self-deprecating and again taking yourself into a whole. Have you found in your experience of doing this that, as you've developed a stronger, more resilient mindset, it's been something where you now can effectively use this in other aspects of your life? Or is it like what came first chicken or the egg? Did you have the resilient mindset and that made it easier for you, or did you have to develop this skill and tool set just like everything else on your six pillars list?

Speaker 2: 30:05

I definitely did not have the mindset before the ultra. I talk about this in a few of my earlier podcast episodes where, like I try and think of how best to describe this Like I was raised to work hard and, you know, to put in the time and the effort but I wasn't a good loser, so to speak. Like if I knew I was going to lose a game, or if I knew I wasn't going to do well on something, I would opt out preemptively. I'd be like, no, I don't want to do that thing because I knew that I wasn't the best or whatever, even though I would try. I would get ahead of myself and instead of letting myself fail and even try, I would just opt out completely. So the process of learning how to go from half to full to ultra and then all the way up to 200 is really an exercise in failing, failing often failing big and figuring out how to come back after each of those fails and learning what caused you to fail. How can you change what you're doing to make it so either it doesn't happen again or the percentage or the likelihood of it happening, whatever the failure was, is reduced. So I've definitely had to work my way through this, a lot of people think like, oh, she was just like.

Speaker 2: 31:27

A lot of people think you're either born with like a really great strong mindset or you're not. That is not true at all. We all have to work on it and it's something that is. You don't work on it in one sitting. You work on it every day, showing up every day, doing your training, regardless if you feel like it or not, regardless if you're motivated, regardless if you want to. That's the basis for getting a stronger mindset. It's like doing the little things that will eventually become habit, that you don't really have to think about. You put them on autopilot, then you can work on the more challenging things, and so on and so forth. You just keep building and then, over time, stuff that was an issue for you or that would cause you to question yourself or talk down to yourself, those things become nonexistent and you're worrying about higher level, bigger problems, bigger fails that you're working on, and so that your mindset just progresses over time as you keep going.

Speaker 1: 32:28

I love that. I would love to see us get to the point where we start to celebrate our failures, like I feel like I tried to make Fetch happen, where I was like hashtag fabulous Friday failures, but the Fetch didn't take off yet. I'm still going to see if we can make that happen, because I do think there's so much beauty in learning to fail often and fail early and just be okay with like it is, what it is it's. This didn't work. That doesn't mean that I'm going to give up on this hope.

Speaker 1: 32:51

So let's talk a little bit more about that, because you're in ultra-territory land and I want to talk more about some of the practical aspects of it and your membership, because I know you cover a lot of that in your membership. But I also want to learn more about you and maybe some of your favorite ultras and some aspirations that you may have coming down the pike. So you've run quite a few, including that 200 miles. It sounds just over the top. I can't even fathom that. What would you say was one of your favorites if you could choose the ultra distances you've done so far or the race that you've done so far?

Speaker 2: 33:21

Well, I would have to say that one of my favorites has been I don't know if you're familiar with it, but it's called the Barkley Fall Classic and it's down in Tennessee and it's put on by sort of like a legend in the ultra running community, and if you Google Barkley Fall Classic, you will likely come up with Barkley Marathons, which, if you watch on YouTube, there's a race called the Barkley Marathons, the race that eats its young and it eats its young. Yeah, it's all about, like, this guy named Laz and he puts on this race and I don't want to spoil it for everybody, but it's a fun YouTube documentary or film that's worth renting. I'm not sure I can't remember if you have to rent it or if it's free now, but it's like five bucks.

Speaker 1: 34:02

Yeah, I feel like it was making the rounds where you could find it with just like a Netflix. It was on Netflix for a while because I know I recommended it previously and I believe Gary Kentrow, or Laz, has just been inaugurated into yes, the Hall of. Fame, yeah. So I mean definitely a very big deal for the ultra community. So Barkley Fall Classic.

Speaker 2: 34:18

Yep. So it's in the same place as the Barkley Marathons, but the format is a little different. You still don't exactly know how long of a race it is. You don't get to wear a smartwatch, you don't even get a map until the day before the race. It's not even really a map I can't even like.

Speaker 2: 34:39

It's not like point to point directions and it's in some really challenging terrain. There's lots of ups and downs. There's some of these like features that aren't what we in the road running community would like actually call a course or a trail. It's like, hey, jump down this hill. Like slide down this hill on your butt, go down to the checkpoint and then climb handover fist in the mud on the way back up. So sometimes it's like obstacle course race, you know, like a Tough Mudder or like a Spartan race mixed with an ultra. And I like it again because it's an ultra distance, though I couldn't tell you exactly how far it is right.

Speaker 2: 35:21

But it's a mindset challenge because you have to overcome not knowing the distance, not knowing the course, despite having you know you can use the map on the day of. But it's not super helpful and it's just like it's a fun challenge. I've done it twice now and if you finish the full race, that's considered a finish. If you make it to the final checkpoint but you miss the time cutoff, you get what they call a marathon finish, which is you have to take I think about it like shoots and ladders. You know the board game we used to play as kids. Instead of being able to go up the ladder to finish, to have a full finish, you have to go down the shoot to the marathon finish and that's technically considered a DNF. Like the Vlad has very different views on finish versus not finish, but I like that race a lot. It's fun, it's challenging, there's a lot of unknown stuff. So if you're ready for like a real mindset, mental and training challenge, that's the one.

Speaker 1: 36:17

There was another documentary that I saw on one of his other races, the backyard ultra finding the limit. So we'll throw that into episode notes as well. If people are looking for some rest day activities to kind of inspire them or think what in the world?

Speaker 2: 36:30

And that's a whole other, different format and not one that I've personally done. But the backyard format is basically for anyone who's not familiar is everyone starts and it's a looped course and it's typically like 4.135 miles and you basically start every hour on the hour. You have 60 minutes to complete the loop and you can go as fast or as slow within the confine of the hour that you want to go, but you have to finish the loop within the hour and if you don't, then you're tapped out. So I mean, in the most recent bigs I think Harvey Lewis went like 413 miles. I might have that wrong, but he definitely went over 400 miles in 72 plus hours. So I mean it was just every hour on the hour, just a little over four miles. You take little mini cat naps. It's like a whole other type of format.

Speaker 2: 37:23

So the cool part about ultra sorted going back to the six pillars is like the race strategy that you have for that is very different than the race strategy you have for a 200 miler or a 50 K or any other race. So it's kind of an interesting sport in that sense that you don't. It's not just the gun goes off and you run to the finish line as fast as possible. You have to contend, especially in the ultra distance, with some of these other factors daytime, running at night. How do you fuel yourself? How do you take care of your physical body, like all of these other elements that go into it?

Speaker 1: 37:55

So with that, that's does sound like an incredible experience. Do you have any of these as aspirations to put them on your bucket list, or that you're already ticking them off or making your way toward it and a big goal that you may have on that race distance or another race distance or type of race?

Speaker 2: 38:13

Yeah, I honestly I don't have any interest in doing the backyard format. It's just not one of those ones that I'm interested in. But I have quite a few women inside my membership who are doing backyard format stuff. So it's been a fun experience, you know, working through and coaching them and working on their plans for the year and getting them and figuring out, okay, what are the components that we need specifically to work on for you and for this specific race, pace wise and all that stuff.

Speaker 2: 38:40

This year, I think for 2024, I'm going to shift gears a little bit and do a bunch of new races same sort of distances, but just different races, ones that have more elevation, that are more technical, that require a little more race strategy. So I'm going to try and do one of each. Like you know, 50k, 50 miles, 100, we're going to go. We're sort of going back, because I haven't raced since Tahoe 200 in 2022.

Speaker 2: 39:07

I spent all of 23 working with my clients, basically, and then pacing for my friend Frank, who was my pacer at Tahoe the previous year. So we sort of switched roles and so I didn't race in 23. I really needed the time off to just to sort of like gather myself because I talked about it a lot in my podcast too. I sort of had like a little existential crisis where I was like, okay, I've run 200 miles, now what Like? What do you do? You know, what do you do after you run 200 miles. So I spent some time working on that, you know, working on my mindset, coaching my client. So it's been a good year for me.

Speaker 1: 39:41

Okay, I want to go ahead and keep that conversation going because I know that you have on your Instagram and on your podcast, the your fatal flaw of making decisions based off of, like, maybe, where we're at today and our fitness level today. And I love that episode because I'm literally texting back and forth with my girlfriend and we're deciding what our next big goal race is going to be, and in that process comes up a lot of the conversation that you had of does it excite you, does it challenge you Versus actually straining and all of that aspect. So let's talk about those type of conversations that you have and finding them not just on the podcast, not just on your incredible social media, where you share a lot of this, but also with your membership, because you do open up your membership once a quarter, yes. So how do people find it? Do they get on a wait list?

Speaker 2: 40:30

Yeah, so the membership is called she Runs Ultras, same as the podcast, and it's open exclusively to women who want to run their first 50 K.

Speaker 2: 40:38

You can stay in there after you run your first 50 K, and then we have a lot of women that are working towards 50 miles, 100 miles, so on and so forth. But the entry point is hey, I want to run my first 50 K and this is how you know I coach you through the process. So, to get on the wait list and to get a little bit more information about the program, you're just going to go to she RunsUltrascom. It's all one word and there's a little button up in the corner that says get on the wait list, and when you put your name and your email in there, that will get you on the list so that when we open it every quarter, you're the first to know. I don't just open it, and there's like a million spots, it's limited to a handful of people, and so when you get that email, if you want in, then you should snag those spots, because they sell out.

Speaker 1: 41:21

So, Megan, if folks are thinking, okay, I'm super intrigued. I watched documentaries. I've read some of the books. I know that this is. I mean, I'm watching Courtney and how she's just lighting the ultra trail running on fire. Maybe I'm inspired, but I know that I want to have something in the intermediary that I'm working in before I get into your membership. What are things that folks can be working on?

Speaker 2: 41:40

Well, I think like working through the distances, right? So if you're listening to this and you are at the 5K distance, you know working up to a 10K, working up to a half and to a full, because logging those miles will help you at the ultra distance. And then starting to increase the amount of time you spend on the trails and I always tell people, like just start by going for a walk on the trails, like you don't need to do your 10 mile, you know longest, run straight out of the gate on the trails because it is a completely different experience and one of the things that you might experience after doing your first trail run is like all sorts of new aches and pains that you haven't had before Because, like I said, it's a full body experience different foot placement, different weight distribution. You know you got to use more core and arms and all of that. So building up slowly a time on trails is super important. I think, starting to integrate more strength and mobility.

Speaker 2: 42:38

One of my soapboxes is something I call the daily shake down, which is just a short movement practice that I started instituting for myself when I was working through the process of healing my own sciatic nerve pain and I just realized, like you know, I don't really do much in the way of movement every day. I just get up, I throw my shoes on and I go running. Maybe there's like some sort of benefit to be gained by taking a different movement track, and so I just started doing. Back then it was just like, hey, I'm going to do like a dynamic warm up, and these days it looks a little more formal in the sense that I try and take all of my joints and muscles through their greatest pain free range of motion, head to toe, once a day. Sometimes, if I, you know, have extra time, I'll do it multiple times a day, but it could be as short as five minutes or, you know, as long as 15 or 20 minutes, just depending on how much time you have. So that's something that I try to encourage everybody. Regardless of whether you're going to do an ultra or not, you're running.

Speaker 2: 43:39

Your physical, running body, but also just your day to day body, will really benefit from the increased movement. It's a boost to your mental self. You increase your energy. It helps to sort of like whenever I'm stuck on something, I get up and do it and then when I come back to the thing that I'm working on. I just have you know more brain sounds available because I've shifted out of whatever that, like you know, maybe it was a negative mindset, maybe I was just in a rut, maybe I was experiencing the 2pm lull of the day, and it really helps. So it's one of those things that I try to encourage everybody to start doing.

Speaker 2: 44:16

And then, once you've gotten that, then there's a whole rabbit hole of mobility that you can really dive down. That's something that we work on a lot inside the membership. We have weekly classes, that, and then like a whole on-demand library. So if you've got cranky hips or you know your knees or your ankles are bothering you, like, we have all of these resources right there that people can go and practice, you know, whenever they need it.

Speaker 2: 44:40

So the mobility piece, I think, is really big because as a runner, like, your biggest fear, one of your biggest fears is getting injured and getting taken out of the game, and so if you can be proactive about it with the daily shakedown and with some sort of and I say formal mobility practice but it doesn't need to be every day, all day, it just needs to be you consistently show up and take your joints and your muscles through their greatest pain.

Speaker 2: 45:04

Free range of motion, and over time that will pay off in the way of better control, more flexibility, better communication from brain to that joint, less injury, reduction of injury because that joint and those tissues are stronger, they're more injury proof. So those would definitely be. That's a lot of stuff to work on but like that would be a good sort of progression because all of those things sort of feed into okay, I've done the distance, I've done the trails, I've done the shakedown and working on my mobility. That's sort of the gateway to all. Right now I'm ready to try and do some ultras. I've put in the practice that you know, sort of like the. I built the foundation. Now let's start to build the actual house and like start to frame up a training plan and really get into it.

Speaker 1: 45:51

I love this so very much. I feel like I could ask a thousand questions about what you think about ultra community in general, from couch to ultra training plans to all sorts of different conversations about it. But, with that said, I'm definitely going to extend the invite anytime you want to come have brunch we will share, hopefully, if you're okay with your recipe, with our newsletter folks and, of course, all the ways that they can stay in touch with you. And if anybody is considering for 2024, they're thinking big, audacious goals, and this is my year for an ultra to go and check out your program. Get on the wait list, megan. Thank you so much for joining us.

Speaker 2: 46:28

Thank you. This has been so much fun, Christine. I love it.

Speaker 1: 46:31

Oh, my sparkles friends, I hope you enjoyed that conversation as much as I did. I walked away thinking one, the daily shakedown it's got my name all over it. And two, I love how Megan has such a passion for really presenting all about the 50 K and beyond in a way that feels approachable, doable and exciting. Now, friend, I am going to ask you again to take some consideration as you go through the rest of your day and kind of do a quick little inventory and think about what do you have on your next running journey goals. Maybe it is the 50 K, maybe you're looking at increasing your mileage, maybe you're thinking of your own perfect run Disney season. Whatever the case may be, I'd love you to pop into our Facebook group community page, weigh in on your favorite distance and what's next for you. We want to hear, we want to support, we want to cheer and encourage you all the way through.

Speaker 1: 47:29

I'm going to ask you again if you have not left a review for time for brunch podcast. Please head over to your platform of choice, be it Spotify, apple or however you are listening to this podcast. Leave a review and reach out to me at info at time for brunch. Let me know. What do you want to hear more of? What kind of guests would you like me to bring on? If you have a specific person that you feel should be on the microphone with me and at the brunch table that I invite you to again, drop me a line If I haven't made it clear. My friend, this is a two way conversation and I want to hear your thoughts. With that said, I want to thank you so very much for sharing time with me. I want to thank you for letting me be a small part of your day, and I also want to remind you to take impeccable care of yourself, and with that, I want to remind you to stay sparkly.