Donkey Dash and Trail Tenacity: Embracing the Spirit of Burro Racing with Michelle Stolz

Have you ever found yourself intrigued by the endurance and tenacity required to master both the wild trails of ultra marathons and the whims of donkey racing? Our guest, the indefatigable Michelle Stolz, takes us on a thrilling journey through her transition from the structured world of road racing to the unpredictable and rewarding path of trail running and burro racing. Michelle's story is a testament to the power of a single spark to ignite a lifelong passion, as she details her ascent from half marathons to 100-mile trail runs with the same spirit she applies to bonding with her four-legged racing partners.

Want to learn more about Burro Racing? Follow Michelle on Instagram here and check out the Western Pack Burro Association here.

Embarking on an adventure with a donkey at your side is no small feat, and this episode unearths every stone along that track. We share laughter and learning curves as Michelle recounts races with runaway donkeys and the joyous triumphs that come from achieving harmony with these quirky athletes. She offers pearls of wisdom for those curious about stepping into the world of pack burro racing, underscoring the deeper life lessons of assertiveness and respect that transcend the sport. Her insights are a roadmap for both the burro racing neophyte and the seasoned trailblazer looking to venture into new territories of challenge and camaraderie.

Our conversation wraps with a peek into the rich tapestry of community and tradition that enlivens the burro racing scene, from the sharing of local delicacies to the collective narrative passed down through generations. Michelle's aspirations to welcome donkeys into her family and her hopes for the future of this sport—both locally and on international horizons—reflect the heartfelt dedication that buoys this distinctive community. 

So, be "Burro-Brave" and join us for a run on the wild side, where personal growth is but a stride away and the stories of the trail are as boundless as the landscapes we traverse. Keep pace with us, and let your next adventure be guided by the spirited tales and insights from the captivating world of Michelle Stolz. 

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:02

Welcome to Tiber Brunch, where we explore movement and mindset and highlight extraordinary folks doing absolutely amazing things, which, of course, brings me to our next guest. I'm Christine Hetzel, but today I'm thrilled to introduce Michelle Stoles, an ultra runner who combines her love for running with the world of burro racing. Since discovering this unique sport on YouTube in 2018, michelle has competed in numerous races with over 10 different donkeys, bringing a new dimension to endurance sports. Alongside her passion for running, she's an avid skier with a love of animals, including her dogs and forces. Michelle, welcome, it's fantastic to have you here.

Speaker 2: 0:41

I am super excited to be here to talk about burro racing. I am super excited that you reached out to me and wanted to talk about this and hopefully get some more folks into this sport or just even curious about it researching, asking questions because that's where it all starts.

Speaker 1: 0:56

Yeah well, we have so many questions. I don't even know that we're going to get to them all today, but, of course, you're always, always welcome to let us know if we need to do a part two, because I do think that there may be a little bit of that as well. So, before we get into burro racing which, of course, is definitely going to be a big part of our conversation but take us back to the beginning of your running journey and what inspired you to start running. Oh, that's a great question.

Speaker 2: 1:21

So back in I want to say it was 2015,. My coworker at the time she came into work and she was just exhausted and I was like, what did you do this weekend? And she mentioned that she did back to back long runs because she was training for first a hundred miler and instantly my mind was probably like exploded and after that I had so many questions I thought in my mind the only racist and that was the longest was the marathon, and so I asked her a lot of questions what does training look like? What does nutrition look like? And from there just kind of snowballed into me training for my first half marathon, my first road marathon, my first 50 K two weeks after that, and then I just got into trail running more because I was surrounding myself with those people. And since 2015, I've done every distance imaginable for training, whether it was just like a local five K, a road to my first 100 mile race on the trails and just everything in between has been so fun and exciting to train for, which also led to the bro racing down the line.

Speaker 2: 2:30

But yeah, that's kind of a summary of my running journey and the people I met and the best friends I have to this day are from running.

Speaker 1: 2:38

Oh, I agree. I feel like it creates a whole new connection and community, which is why I feel like I'm so fond of it. But I have to say that when you first started to tell me the story, I really thought you were going to say and that led me to training for my first hundred of miler, which I was going to say that's very ambitious for your first one out not that there's anything wrong with that, if that's the case. But now that you've tackled all of the different distances, I have to ask real quick do you have a favorite or do they all have a special place in your heart?

Speaker 2: 3:04

I think they all. I mean this is like a two part, I think, where they all definitely have a special place in my heart. Finally, I would say it's either depending. I really like a half marathon, just for you know, you can do it in a day, you can have a lot of fun doing it and I think there's this element of like you can really push yourself without being like, wow, I'm just like completely gassed out. I also do like the 50k distance to or just like a little bit more of a marathon. But I the trails have such a special place in my heart and they always will, so any distance I can do on the trails I probably won't do like a hundred anytime in the future just because of the training that goes into that. But yeah, I would say like half marathon or 50k for sure.

Speaker 1: 3:48

Do you feel like you identify more as a trail runner now, or do you still do some road racing as well?

Speaker 2: 3:53

Mostly trail runner, I will do roads once in a while. I think it's a nice mix of training, just to remind myself how much I love the trails where it's like, wow, I, the roads do have their place for sure, but it's not something that I seek out all the time, but the weather sometimes calls for it.

Speaker 1: 4:10

So I am going to ask you did you have any challenges or obstacles in transitioning from road to trail? I know that you kind of live in Trail Nirvana, or you have trends of trails available to you, I believe. Is that the case?

Speaker 2: 4:23

Yeah, we're out in Colorado and there are quite a bit of trails to choose from, which is an amazing quality to have wherever you live. In terms of transitioning from road to trail, I think the first thing that comes to mind is gear, and then for me it was finding the right pair of shoes and nutrition. There's just a lot more that went into it, because I think in my mind it was the distances I was trying for, and doing that required more time, investment in the proper gear. Not that road running doesn't have that, but for me, in my journey and transition into that, I was definitely more gear focused and minded of I'm going to be spending hours on end through day and night on the trails and just to be as comfortable as I can be and properly fueled and all that.

Speaker 1: 5:09

Okay, it does make a lot of sense because you have to be a bit more self supported, especially for well, though there's some trails or some also some opportunities with races where they have some really great aid stations, but it is a bit more gear heavy, so I could see where maybe that would be a challenge to learn a little bit more about that. But now I'm curious, because you're already talking about tackling the challenges of gear when did burrow racing come into play? How did you get interested in this sport?

Speaker 2: 5:36

Wow, this is probably my favorite story of like my running journey so far is that I was watching on a Solomon TV episodes back in like the 2018 ish timeline and one of them was two of the athletes at the time did what is still one of the burrow races today. It's their play long course and it's around 30 miles and it's kind of the kickoff of like the burrow racing triple crown season. I believe it's in late July and these two athletes trained for about a week with two donkeys that they rented from a guy in the area and they ran the race that same week and I just thought, like this is so crazy and funny, I need to do this. Like that was just my first instinct from watching it and thankfully, I was able to meet one of the athletes the following year and I asked him like how did you get this opportunity, this chance, and like the connections? And he was grateful enough to share contact information with me of renters. Unfortunately, the race I wanted to do the all the girls are rented out, but there's community. There is so intertwined with each other that they said, hey, we were all booked out for this race you want to do. However, we know these people who have some available. So I reached out to them. They sent me up with a donkey and that same year I did my first pro race.

Speaker 2: 7:00

It was not the 30 mile one, but it's a close to Denver in like that vicinity. It's called Frederick and it's like a lollipop 10k and it's relatively flat. There are some challenging parts to that course where there's bridges and tunnels which, depending on what donkey you end up with, they're stubborn for a reason. I think that's one of the biggest misconceptions is they're stubborn and they're lazy. That is not entirely true at all. They're very self. They have a very strong self preservation and so this is dangerous that they're not going to do it, but it's just like a team exercise to be like. You know, this bridge may be scary for you, but once we get over it together we're going to be just fine. Oh and same with the tunnels on that course too.

Speaker 1: 7:41

I love that. Okay, so let me take it back a little bit, because there are many people that are listening, that are out for their runs and they're thinking right now, I would love a burrow so I could jump on its back and it could take me the rest of the miles in. That's not the case for burrow racing. You're not riding the donkey, you're actually running as a team, as a partner with it, right? Yes?

Speaker 2: 8:02

And I'm so glad you brought this up because that is one of the rules.

Speaker 2: 8:05

You can absolutely never, in any point during the race, ride the donkey and it would probably be very uncomfortable because part of their required gear is like the traditional saddle pack, so it's basically a saddle that goes on the donkey that has bags on either side.

Speaker 2: 8:21

Traditionally it used to carry because also go back a little bit Burrow racing comes from mining traditions, so in these races you used to have to carry the use of a weight limit, but that got dropped in 2020. So the 33 pound rule is no longer in existence. But they used to have to carry a pickaxe, a shovel and a gold pan and some people still display it because it is kind of like an homage to the sport. But it just really depends on the runner and the donkey, so that it just kind of varies from donkey to donkey and renter to renter. But it is kind of cool to see because some people like paint and decorate their gold pans and have the donkey's name on them, so it is kind of fun to see that on there. But yeah, that's part of their required gear to wear.

Speaker 1: 9:08

So I think that there also may be a little bit of possibility of people having misnomers or using interchangeably mule, donkey and burrow. Can you give some clarification as to the differences? Are there differences?

Speaker 2: 9:20

Yes, so burrow and donkey are totally fine because those are interchanging. A mule is a half donkey, half horse, so those are definitely not allowed in a race. They're very cute though. I mean there are definitely like similarities of like how they look Like. If you saw a mule, you would know like that is definitely like half horse, half donkey, just by looking at it. Donkeys do range in various sizes. There are everyone's heart goes out towards the minis. Like they're adorable, everybody wants them. You can pin them in your pocket. And then there are, in some cases, mammoth donkeys that could potentially be the size of a horse that people run with. So they kind of. But the one you probably see the most is like a standard donkey.

Speaker 1: 10:00

Okay, so the standard donkey is usually a little smaller than a mule. I believe right?

Speaker 2: 10:07

Yes, All donkeys are generally smaller than mules. Just because of that half horse quality, that height wise they're gonna far exceed donkey unless you are talking about the mammoth ones, but a standard one like you could. I'm just like picturing like armrests or an elbow rest Like you could generally rest your arm or your elbow comfortably on them without having to like reach out, if that makes sense.

Speaker 1: 10:30

It does. It does absolutely. Okay, let's unpack this. You fall in love with this sport. You obviously have a very special place in your heart for animals, and you've also fallen in love with donkeys along the way, but you're starting to get into the history. Is this something that's quite popular? Is it something that you see this burgeoning Like? We've seen a really big burgeoning of trail and ultra distances in the past few years, maybe past decade or so. Is that also the case for burrow racing In some?

Speaker 2: 10:58

respects. Yes, I think it's like a subsection of trail running. There are definitely races that are more popular to go to as a spectator than an actual runner. Like I know the Leadville one that gets a lot of because there's usually a festival involved with the Triple Crown series. So there's the one that happens in Fair Play and that's part of Burrow Days. You have the Leadville one, which is the following Sunday after Leadville. So they're like sequential races that happen basically every Sunday after another for the Triple Crown and that does bring quite an audience to them In terms of participation.

Speaker 2: 11:35

I do think it gained a little bit more popularity. However, they're so relatively small still that it's hard to say. Like you know, you have to line up and make sure that you have a donkey rented out, that sort of thing. I don't think that's necessarily the case, depending on the race, like Leadville. Those ones, yes, they are usually rented out a year in advance, but the smaller ones that happen throughout the year, no, I mean, I think the first one I did last year there was, maybe granted, it was the first year that this race happened there was eight of us that did it, so it's a very small, depending on the race to and location. So it really varies depending on the Triple Crown has been around for probably oh, if I had to guess like 70-ish years at this point, wow, okay, so it does have quite a bit of history in terms of being something that's been happening in tradition.

Speaker 1: 12:30

Okay, I want to selfishly get into all of the details of how I can learn how to do this myself, but before we get into that, I want to talk a little bit more about your memories in regards to burro racing. So, do you have a favorite memory in the burro races that you've done or a favorite experience that you've navigated?

Speaker 2: 12:48

Yeah, For me, because I've run with so many different ones now and they all have such different personalities in history and ages. The first one that comes to mind is last year. I had just kind of a crazy race. I've run with this burro this is my third time running with him and the race just went down the gutter. He was a very fast donkey and I am not a very fast runner, if I had to describe myself and he basically took off without me on a downhill course and it was near impossible to get him back, which is one of the rules is, if your donkey gets away from you, you have to go back to the place where you lost it and then start over once you get a hold and control of them again. And so I'm like I have to hike this like two and a half mile up downhill back up with him and then try doing this again, and that just.

Speaker 2: 13:39

There's a lot of emotions with that one. But that's not the race I wanted to talk about. But I was coming off that race being like questioning myself like am I, should I not do this for it anymore? Maybe he's just not a good fit for me at this point because he's a young, fast donkey and that's a great point to bring up too is like if you rent a donkey and you just feel like you're not having that connection with him, granted, it can be your first race. Tensions are high, emotions are high, that's just something to keep in your back pocket.

Speaker 2: 14:07

So I was coming off this race and the next race I did, they were like why don't you try? They call him a Demo Donkey and in their regard that means he's seen everything. He's really gentle, he's just like an all star, basically. And I was like sure I'll run with this amazing donkey. And so the next race I did just called Creed. It's a 10 mile race. I just finished. I think I was crying because I was like man, this donkey was so great and just like the trust and everything I was, just like he just made the whole experience for me. Like this is why I love this sport is like every race is different, every donkey is different and once you find that connection with one, you're like this is so cool to share with this donkey and just totally 180 my experience with this sport. It was amazing.

Speaker 1: 14:53

I feel like it's like speed dating a little bit, like it's like where you have to give a breakup speech, where it's really not me, it's you, donkey, and we just we don't connect in that way and I need to try something else, which okay. So let's get into the details, because you're starting. You've touched on it quite a few different ways. For folks that are thinking like myself, this is sounds like the most amazing experience ever. What would you have somebody who is completely new at this? What would you suggest for them to get started?

Speaker 2: 15:19

Sure, there is some opportunities in Colorado for training runs, typically depending on who you're renting from. If you don't have a donkey, sometimes you're like a training run the day before. Sometimes you just have to show up to the race, and that's just called being bro-brief is to show up to the race, and a renter would never set you up with a donkey that you're not suited to run with. There's usually a questionnaire that they email out to beforehand asking about your running experience, your pace, if you have any sort of like equine experience, and just to go about it that way, where you can, you know, show up to the race a few hours early, brush your donkey, get to know them, take a her walk. You could probably jog with it a little bit if you felt like you wanted to, but I think the best case scenario would be to go out for a training run or any sort of capacity where you can even just like hang out with donkeys to get to know their personality and their mannerisms. Would be super helpful if you just have those connections.

Speaker 1: 16:20

Okay, so I live like in the, literally the suburbs. I think there's one donkey maybe in 200 mile radius of me, so it sounds like being bro-brief. Basically is being bold and just meeting your partner right then and there and just going out. But from what I'm hearing, maybe having a little bit of experience getting to know, if not specifically that donkey that you're going to be racing with, but having some knowledge of trying to run with the animal and also, I assume there's a little bit of not trying to bend the will of the actual animal. Because from what? Well, I'm going to ask you, is there something that you do to lead it or does the donkey really do its thing and you're quite literally a partner with it?

Speaker 2: 17:03

I'm laughing at the bend the will. It's like I don't think you can ever bend the will of a donkey. It will not do anything at once. It doesn't want to do.

Speaker 1: 17:10

I want to be a donkey when I grow up. By the way, Same.

Speaker 2: 17:15

They are wearing a halter and a lead rope, so you are basically guiding it and leading it. For, like a renters perspective, the best way I see it is like you are that donkey substitute teacher for the day, and the donkey knows it too. The donkey knows you're not. It's well, maybe it does know, like it's typical, because there are people who rent donkeys the same one like year after year and that's their buddy. But some donkeys they know you're not their runner and they know you're not like the typical person it's with. And so they will in some cases, depending on the donkey, like test you a little bit just to see, like, how compatible you are with the donkey. You can be bold, you can be assertive without being aggressive, and I think that best like balance, where it's like we're in this together, we're going to have a great time, we're going to do this race together and we're going to share this experience together.

Speaker 1: 18:09

I mean everything that you're talking about. It almost makes me feel like this should be a standard application test that we go through just to see how you are as a human. I feel in every capacity. I feel like you learn so many life lessons about yourself because being assertive but not aggressive, learning to work with the things that are out of your control, and also like just having to kind of wrap your mind around, because when I'm thinking of that race that you said, where your donkey left you kind of in the dust and you had to hike back up the hill, so if it would have been a 10k, that automatically turned it into an eight mile experience. So it's just kind of having to really go with the flow.

Speaker 1: 18:43

I love that, those life lessons you can learn about being flexible. I feel like this is something that you're super, super passionate about. I love that you're spending so much time of your own educating folks about this, because I know your social media has really started to well. From what I have seen on your social media, it's really primarily focused on educating newbies or educating folks about this incredible sport. I am curious do you feel like, with social media, it has helped to really get this out there to others so that they don't make maybe as many mistakes when they get out there.

Speaker 2: 19:15

That's kind of my goal. I mean, I just think of it as like I saw this video on YouTube that inspired me and I just want to keep that like inspiration and educational life, like running in general is so amazing and great and all like the avenues you can take with it, whether it's like road trail, whatever it may be. And this is like another subsection of that is burl racing and to make educational videos or FAQs or how to put on a pack. So like anything under the sun of like burl racing, it has garnered some people reaching out and asking questions or be like hey, what would be like a good first race for me to try. So it is fun to talk to folks about the questions that they have and because it's like that excitement makes me excited too, so it goes both ways.

Speaker 1: 20:00

Well, yeah, that's my question. What's the first good race to try? Now, I'm teasing. If you want to name names, I am so happy to take them, but I don't know if you want to necessarily get into that here or if people should reach out to you through your social media, I think.

Speaker 2: 20:11

I mean I'm happy to do either one, but I do think off the top of my head and I know like logistics and traveling to certain places can make it more difficult. But I 100% think Creed is a great race. It's 10 miles, it's just such a beautiful town and the scenery is just super pretty too. I think if you wanted something close, like if you're flying into Denver, frederick is a great option. The one downfall of that is it is a lot of pavement For some people, not fun.

Speaker 2: 20:41

But it is a flat lollipop course and it is closer to the city. So I just think it logistically it helps folks fly in or drive in to a major city to be able to access burrow racing. So that is another thing for me where it's just like burrow racing kind of happens all over Colorado and it can be hard to get to some races. But I think a shorter distance, something closer to the city, is something that's manageable to train for with the donkey, where I'm not going to say like they're play lawn courts you could be out there for hours on end and come in with a headlamp sort of a thing, but yeah unless if you, that would be like.

Speaker 1: 21:17

I don't know if that's bordering on being burrow stupid versus burrow brave for your first one out. We won't pass judgment here again, whatever folks chose to do for their first time out, but it sounds like there is quite a bit to ensure that you have a good experience that can be taken into account. Now I am curious for folks that maybe are thinking is the burrow even wanting to do this? Is there, I mean, from like a perspective of its welfare and how they're treated? Would you be able to shed some light on that as well?

Speaker 2: 21:49

Sure, I think that question kind of goes into like do donkeys like to run? And they do. Donkeys originally from the wild. They're out running, they're out playing, they're not sedentary creatures and so that kind of ties into running. However, like not every donkey is trained to run with a halter and lead rope on saddle pack. So it's kind of like I guess my equal or comparison would be like teaching a dog how to go for a run.

Speaker 2: 22:17

It's like you start small, you go for walks, then you add a little orcas a human too Like walk, run intervals or just going for a walk with a little bit of jogging. So it does take time to build up to that. And I have donkeys and I have training experience. But just like from talking to other people and helping other people train their donkeys, like it's just that natural progression of like they just don't wake up one day and be like I'm going to run 30 miles unless they are out in the wild just doing that in their free will. But yeah, they do enjoy running and if they don't, they won't Like they will.

Speaker 1: 22:49

Ok, yeah, yeah. I mean I got that feeling already from how you've expressed their personality. If it's not their jam, they're going to let you know. It's not their jam right out of the gate. So I am curious. Ok, so for us folks that are likely going to rent a donkey but I want to get into how we should choose and rent donkeys what's the right process that we can ensure that we are definitely making sure that our dollars are going to organizations that take care of them and all of those aspects. But I also want to talk about what would be some suggestions you would have for folks in terms of their own training, likely knowing that maybe, while they they may be able to get out there and run with donkey or not, should they be tackling trails? Should they be tackling specific? Should they get used to maybe running with their dogs and doing more with like a lead? Is there anything that you would suggest that folks should take into consideration during their training?

Speaker 2: 23:40

That is a very good question, Because with my first race I basically just went in for a break because I didn't have any sort of opportunities to like train or meet donkeys beforehand. I would generally say like run with a dog. However, when you're running with a donkey, I think a lot of people, especially with their first race this is probably my biggest tip is like don't hold the lead rope super tight because they are a pressure release animal versus like horses are pressure and I think a lot of people in their head they're like oh, equine, horse apply pressure, because when you apply too much pressure on a donkey, that's when they start to stress and you see things during a race you probably don't want to see. So, as much as you can try to during your first race or your first training, run just like relax, like you can hold the lead rope but have a lot of slack and maybe I guess, like because you're holding a lead rope, you are running with a rope in your hand. So this might sound silly, but like, try running with like a water bottle in your hand or something where it's like you're not able to like swing your whole arm all the time Because it is just like a weird feeling of just like holding something while you run, so maybe like a water bottle or something, just to get used to that feeling if you're not able to train with a donkey. But I think that's probably the biggest tip I have. It's hard when you don't or aren't able to train with them, but there are groups out in Colorado that train or do training runs.

Speaker 2: 25:02

I'm trying to think of other things, but it is mostly on trails that these races happen and kind of just like trail running in general. A lot of them do like walk uphill. The downhill for me is probably the most challenging. With pro racing. I was going to say scary, but I'm like you should try not to make this a scary experience for yourself and just like reframe how you think of it too, Because with the downhills, with running with donkeys, you want to keep them behind you, because if they get in front of you it is very hard to get them back and to keep them at a pace that you can run at.

Speaker 2: 25:34

Donkeys can do a three or four minute mile pace. One of them last year did it going uphill with their runner. So I would just work on like if you are running downhill, even just like practicing I'm doing it right now as I'm talking to you when you just like you want to keep them and it's always they're going to always be on your left side and just to like keep them behind you is the biggest thing. So, just like working on the scooting hand motion of staying back and all of that Any runner will go over before a race of like Handling techniques. You never want to wrap the lead rope around your hand because people have unfortunately lost fingers and things it's not common but it can happen or being drug at some point and so you just want to make sure it's like bunched in your hand. So in any emergency situation like you can let go and it's just easier to manipulate the rope to make it shorter or longer, depending on your needs and the donkey's needs.

Speaker 1: 26:30

So what I'm hearing is that, while folks can potentially be burrowed, they should still educate themselves with some of the things. I know that the renters are going to help quite a bit, but even beforehand, starting to kind of follow your channel, follow the resources that you so wonderfully link and kind of just get a good idea so that when they get out there they aren't making any of those potential mistakes, because, realistically, any sport that you do comes with its own potential hazard. So learning as much as you possibly can before getting out there sounds like it would be really beneficial. So let's talk a little bit about choosing and renting donkeys. So I know that I first found out about renting donkeys through like a Facebook group, but is there? How do I know that this is a good rental? What would you suggest for folks that are wanting to make sure they're going to a rental that I guess just really cautious and conscientious of how they take care of the donkeys and the renters that rent them?

Speaker 2: 27:22

That's a great question and I think you touched on this a little bit previously too. I just really encourage folks to do their research and honestly ask as many questions as you want or can. Once you have that research of, like these are the places that rent out, these are the questions I have. I think that's just such a great combination. I know the Western Packborough Association lists some renters. However, that doesn't that's not all the renters that are out there. So I think Facebook is also a great place to start, because I know there are Facebook groups. You could maybe even reach out to the people who are in that group and say like hey, have you rented from them before? What is your experience? To have those side conversations, I think is super helpful and even just for folks who have done it before, like to share their experience from various renters, is another great avenue to take too.

Speaker 1: 28:12

Okay, so do your due diligence. You know I love that you mentioned that Ask a lot of questions, because I think that is something that we tend to feel that we can't do. We feel a little silly. So I usually say, even if people are interviewing run coaches or a new run group or whatever the case may be, this is, you want to know that you're investing your time the right way for you. So absolutely ask those questions and make sure that you don't feel at all silly. Which is going to bring me back to my next question. So you've had some memorable moments with the donkeys. What do you think? Do we see a donkey in your personal future? 100%.

Speaker 2: 28:47

Okay, I'm trying not to put all my eggs in one basket, but I am. The first race I'm running this year is a donkey that I might be able to adopt. I'm not going to say more than that, but I'm just really excited at the prospect of that and just to have this opportunity to like run with them before, just to see if that compatibility is there, I think is so important, especially for a donkey, that, because they live for probably 30-ish years, it's a long-term commitment. I mean, I understand that with having horses and other animals in my life, but it's equine, it's not just a well for a run-through, yes, where it's just like you get to share this awesome experience and then you both go your separate ways until maybe you see each other at the next race.

Speaker 2: 29:32

But when you own donkeys, it's you're taking care of them, you're in charge of training them, making sure that come race day, that they have what they call getting them legged up or legging up for the race, and just ensuring because at the end of the day, it's their race and their experience and making sure that their health and safety are first and foremost. And there's definitely donkeys in the future for our family and I'm super excited about. You know, whenever that happens, it's something that it's easy to rush in to think like, oh, I could go get donkeys today if I wanted. But I think it's so much more than just getting donkeys. It's like knowing what you're looking for, and not only if they're compatible for you, but a vice versa. You know that they're gonna be a good fit for your family and that they feel like this is gonna be enriching their lives too.

Speaker 1: 30:23

I love the perspective of it being their race versus, I think, sometimes we, especially when I think I mean I'm just gonna be honest when I think of it from like, oh, I'm gonna rent a donkey because I wanna do this race, but it really still is about their experience, which again brings us back to that whole teamwork, and I could see that you wanna spend that time doing your due diligence with how you bring in and expand your own family with this donkey. I of course, want to know how you're gonna do the naming process, but we'll get into that once you finally vet out who you're bringing home with you.

Speaker 2: 30:52

I have a list, Like I've met certain donkeys where, unfortunately, like it just didn't work out at the end but based on like their story and everything, there's definitely a system I have. But there are some really fun donkey names out there just from being at races and hopefully you'll get to experience that too with when you do your first bro race.

Speaker 1: 31:13

I love how you're putting that out there. We're gonna manifest that possibility, because this is something that has intrigued me for a really long time and you have been such a wealth of knowledge and so encouraging, and that's why I'm so excited to have you here and share your experiences with other folks that are listening in. I'm curious what are you looking for as your own personal goals, cause, like you mentioned earlier on, you've tackled all of the race distances. I would even go as far as saying that, bro racing is maybe still a more of a fringe type of sport. What do you wanna tackle for your own personal goals in terms of your running and racing future?

Speaker 2: 31:44

Yeah, my goal not if it doesn't happen this year in the future will be to have my own donkeys and to race with them and hopefully at some point participate in the Triple Crown if not this year, the next and to just continue to be part of this community, cause it's such an awesome sport and the community is so amazing too. Like everyone helps each other out, everyone helps with each other's donkeys, Like I've seen in races where someone's donkeys gets loose and people just stop and they make sure like they can get a lead on them and make sure the runner's okay, it's just. And trail running's like that too, or just any sort of running community where we all wanna see each other succeed and be helpful towards each other and just have a good time, cause it is such a fun sport. At the end of the day, it's silly, it's fun. It's just something you don't see every day, and I love when spectators come and they ask questions about the sport, Like before, when all like the donkeys are hanging out and getting ready by their trailers. It's just such a cool experience.

Speaker 2: 32:43

So I just love to continue to do this sport and this year one of my goals is to do more out of state ones, because it doesn't just happen in Colorado. It is the Summer Heritage Sport of Colorado. It's been happening for 76 years, but it is very prevalent in New Mexico, Arizona, California, and there are new states popping up. I wanna say every year and one of the exciting things too is France recognized it as a sport and they brought it to their country this year, so they are also starting burrow racing in March. So cool. It's so cool to see and just for people to experience it and to learn more about donkeys too, like they're just such a misunderstood animal In my perspective that it's cool that people not like this is like the avenue that people are learning about these amazing animals, Cause they are endurance athletes.

Speaker 1: 33:39

Very much so I mean, clearly we could pretty much say that like that's kind of how the West of the US was developed quite a bit Thanks to burrows and donkeys is from my knowledge of it. So I'm curious how that continues to unravel. It's very interesting to see that more people are coming to it and of course I love, by the way, how you went from looking at adopting a donkey to, in the future, donkeys plural. We all picked up on that. I can guarantee that. Oh yes.

Speaker 2: 34:04

That's another. They're herd and compatible animals. Like you cannot just have a donkey, it will not thrive, it will not be its best self. Always in donkey pairs I will say that again, like always in donkey pairs, they just thrive with each other and in a herd.

Speaker 1: 34:20

I feel like at the first this conversation, when you're talking about it being stubborn and not being able to bend to others wills, like I want to be a donkey. But now, after talking to you, I'm like maybe I am a donkey cause I am definitely all about community and silliness and having a good time with others, but of course, part of that is I love connecting, overrunning, and I love the fact that we can connect over food. I feel like that's also a very great shared experience. So I'd love to know because of course, when I hear, but for a racing there is a lot of festivities around it, there's a lot of like, maybe traditional dishes. Do you have some traditional dishes that you like to have, or food that you love after your burrow races? That kind of comes to mind.

Speaker 2: 35:00

So yeah, you're right about like they are usually with like a festival and there's usually like food trucks or vendors surrounding it and live music.

Speaker 2: 35:07

Due to dietary restrictions, I usually can't partake in that stuff, but it is fun just to like sit with the people that are part of this community and just hang out afterwards and just relax.

Speaker 2: 35:17

It can be a serious sport for some people because there are some competitive people who show up to these races, but in general it's just like a very fun experience for most and just to share the festivities afterwards and be part of like the awards they give out. And one of the awards in some races is called the last ass awards, so the last person who comes in, because if you know donkeys, not all of them are gonna run the whole race. Some of them walk the whole course. Some of them will stop for an hour because you can't get them to go, so that it is fun to like wait for the last person to come in and cheer them on to get them their last ass award. I have also been a last ass before. I have walked a half marathon with my donkey that did not wanna go and I think it took over five hours, if I can remember.

Speaker 1: 36:06

Oh goodness, yes, that's a lot of time on your feet.

Speaker 2: 36:09

And it was for the donkey too, and that donkey at the time was overcoming a lot of new things. Like there's people walking the kayaks over their head and the donkey's like what is this? And just like talking them through, like hey, it's just a person with a kayak. Like even just going through that experience together was one of the most memorable for me. And just to share that experience with that donkey at that time and yeah, it's just so much fun. I mean I could talk about the different races and experiences and vanderisms each one has, and but it's just yeah, each race is so fun and just all of the events and activities and even just like leading up to the start line, where you're getting to know your donkey and you're brushing them and helping them get ready, it's a lot of fun.

Speaker 1: 36:53

So now I have a new goal in life. It's not just to run with a donkey, but to actually have a last-ass award, because I feel like that again. That's something that I would definitely gravitate towards. I'm thinking of some of my own previous races where I may have come in last because it was fun to go off and do other things during the race instead of just running. But I am curious. Let's say that you decide one day I'm gonna have my own small, I'm gonna organize my own brewer race and you get to have your own festive flair, even with your dietary restrictions. What would you wanna share recipe-wise with folks that kinda came to your brewer race?

Speaker 2: 37:25

Ooh that is a really good question. I guess, like because I want everyone to be able to enjoy, I'd make sure there's like whatever gluten-free, dairy-free, vegan, those options available to the people, cause I just feel like it is more prevalent now. So if it was tacos, if it was like rice bowls I mean, I always love a good rice bowl I think they're just so versatile and what you can add into them, I'm gonna stick with rice bowls because they're just so good. Yeah, where you can add like veggies or tofu or like whatever you wanted to put in it, and I think just about everyone can probably enjoy that.

Speaker 2: 37:56

Yeah, that would be just like really, actually, now that I think about it, the Frederick race had some really amazing like dietary friendly options, and even there was like a cupcake vendor and they had like a gluten-free vegan option. I was like, is this too good to be true? And it was the most amazing cupcake ever. So I probably want them to come to, if I direct them on ever to be like can I get those cupcakes out to this burro race Cause, yeah, they're amazing.

Speaker 1: 38:22

So from burro brave to a burro race director in the future, it sounds like, before we officially leave, what are some parting words of wisdom you would have for anybody on how they can go ahead and maybe tackle this if this is something that intrigues them as well?

Speaker 2: 38:39

Yeah, I would say again do research, look for Facebook groups. The Western Pack Burro Association website is a great tool and if for some reason, those things don't work out, just be bro, burp, rape and have fun. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. You can clearly ask a lot of questions beforehand, cause that's what I did and it worked out just fine. It was a super fun experience and friends.

Speaker 1: 39:00

We're also going to share, of course, michelle's Instagram. It's at Michelle the doe, but we're gonna have that in episode notes. You guys don't have to stop and take notes, you can just go ahead and follow that link so that you can connect with her and ask all of the questions that maybe are hot on your mind right now. Michelle, thank you so much for sharing your wisdom and the advocacy that you're doing for bros and burro racing and helping us novices that are really, really intrigued by it to make sure that we have the best experience possible, as maybe we tackle it as well.

Speaker 2: 39:30

Of course. Yeah, I hopefully will see you and maybe some of these listeners that are raised. I would love to see some more curious minds and excited minds throughout the year. Be awesome. Thank you, yeah, thanks.

Speaker 3: 39:45

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